[list-cumbria] Carlisle Patriot, 13 Mar 1824 - Cumberland Spring Assizes (14)

Sat Jul 20 10:49:17 UTC 2024

Saturday 13 Mar 1824   (p. 1, col. 5 - p. 4, col. 5, and p. 1, col. 4)

CUMBERLAND SPRING ASSIZES. 

CROWN CALENDAR. 

[continued] 

Cross-examined by Mr. COURTENAY.-For some time before the 6th July, I had perceived that she was big with child; I thought so by her
appearance. I can't say that people often taxed her with it-I did so myself; I know of no one else charging her with it; but I had
done so one or two times. I can't say how long before this it was that I put it to her-I cannot certainly say how long-it was a
piece, a canny piece. She did not live in a lone house, but in a neighbourhood; at Dalston Townhead; there are several houses close
to her's; many women living about there who know her very well. These women, I suppose, would have the same opportunities of seeing
that she was with child as I had-I think no one mentioned the thing to me. The house in which she lives consists of two rooms, one
below and one above; it stands about four yards off the road, which is a public one. Dalston is a manufacturing place; rather
thronged with people who work at the manufactures. What I saw unpleasant was on the floor, which consisted of flags: what I observed
was nearly in the middle of the floor. I was then a single woman, and never had a child; but I have since married, but not had a
child; so, of course, I don't pretend to be a judge of appearances following a birth. In saying that she was badly "Yon way," she
pointed to the appearances alluded to. It was in consequence of what the prisoner told us that I looked into the coal-hole. As soon
as I opened the coal-hole door, I could see the child; but the light was rather duskish, being evening; there was no covering over
it. I was present when the body was washed; I observed that the child had a navel string, about six or eight inches long. She said
it was born dead. There was no bed in that room-the bed-room was up-stairs. You can't go to the upper room but through the lower
one, and it is therefore much more private than the lower room. There was a window in the lower room looking towards the street; and
any one might look into it, if they came a little distance for that purpose. There was a door, also, towards the road; and if that
were opened, not being locked, any one might have walked in. If one wished to do what was wrong, it could have been done more
conveniently-and less exposedly up-stairs. When I taxed her with being with child she used to say, I might stop till I saw-she did
not deny it. 

Re-examined.-I did not go up stairs at all, neither the first nor second time. These houses are not in the town of Dalston; they are
near a quarter of a mile off. When I opened the coal-hole door the arms were laid in this form (spread out) and the legs were
bended, the little knees of it rather up; lying on its back. The navel string was not tied. 

Frances GATE, called-a child, illegitimate daughter of the prisoner. In answer to questions from his Lordship, she said she did not
know how old she was; that she had not been used to say her prayers, or pray to God; she said she did not know what would become of
her if she told a lie: that she knew not what became of people who told lies. Her evidence was dispensed with, to the evident relief
of the crowded court. 

Margaret SCOTT called.-I live at Dalston Townhead, and am a single woman. I have known the prisoner about a year from this time. I
remember the sixth of July last. Before that time I had observed, by the prisoner's person, that she was with child; and I sometimes
put it too [sic] her; for the first time about 12 weeks before the 6th of July. She said to me in reply, that she would go and
father it; and that she would like to have some person to go with her; but she did not ask me. When I put it to her afterwards, she
turned it off with a joke, and said we might stop till we see'd. I went to her house, on the 6th of July, at seven in the evening,
in consequence of something which Mary IRVING, the last witness, said to me. I saw her confused like, and I asked her if she was
poorly: she said, no. I said I believed she was poorly. She said, in answer to that, that she was unwell; that we should all be
cheated of her. I said, no Jane, I believe we would not. She said nothing more. I then went to Jane IRVING's. Mary IRVING is the
daughter of Jane IRVING. I saw a person of the name of Elizabeth IRVING at Jane IRVING's that evening. In consequence of something
said by Elizabeth IRVING, we all went to the prisoner's house-consisting of Mary IRVING, Jane IRVING, Elizabeth IRVING, and me.
Betty IRVING spoke first: she said, "Jane," meaning the prisoner, "it is reported that you are with child." I cannot recollect the
prisoner's answer, but she made one. Jane IRVING said something, but I went out again. I saw the coal-house door opened by Mary
IRVING, Jane GATE having said that the child was there-but I was not present when she said this: I came in just as the door was
opened. I saw the child lying in the coal-hole. I don't remember that any thing was said by any body. Jane IRVING took the child out
of the coal-house; it was black, I believe, from the wounds, there being two upon the left arm, and one upon the left thigh. I did
not go up stairs-I don't recollect seeing any one go up. 

By Mr. COURTENAY.-There are seven houses at Dalston-Townhead, altogether: the shops are in the town, whither we go when we want to
buy any thing; a high-road leads to it, the distance very short. I had observed that she was with child so long as 12 weeks before
the 6th of July, and of course, she increased in size. It was reported and well-known that she was with child. When she said she
would go and father the child, I understood her to mean that she would go before a justice of the peace. If there had been any doubt
on the matter, this was a good way to publish it. With us, the word "poorly" ordinarily means that a woman is in labour-she denied
that, but said she was unwell. The phrase "all be cheated of her," means a disappointment that she was with child. If a child is
still-born, that is a disappointment. 

Re-examined.-What did you understand by her saying that you should all be cheated of her?-This question was objected to, and not
pressed. His Lordship said the Jury would draw the inference. 

Elizabeth IRVING examined by Mr. PATTINSON.-I am a married woman, and live at Dalston-Townhead. On the 6th of July last, I went to
the house of Jane GATE, accompanied by Mary AIKIN, at seven in the evening, when we saw the prisoner in her kitchen. I asked her how
she was; she said she was only poorly. I said that she looked very poorly-like, and asked her what was the matter with her. She said
she was very poorly as she had been different times before. We said, it was reported she was with child; that we were afraid she had
done something wrong by it. She said that she had not: it was lies. We questioned her. She said that she had borne a child, and it
was dead. I had not gone up stairs before this. We asked when it was; what was the reason she had not sought somebody in; she
replied that she had been taken very suddenly ill; she had not time. We asked her where it was. She said it was in the coal-house.
We went and sought Jane IRVING in, and her daughter Mary. We went up stairs just in the meantime, before we sought Jane IRVING.
After the conversation it was that we went up stairs, to see if we could get her put to bed; but she did not go. When we went up
stairs, we saw something by which we knew she had a child-the floor of the room was very dirty-indicating that she had been
delivered there. I saw nothing upon the floor of the room below. After we went out, I returned again with Jane IRVING, and her
daughter Mary; and Margaret SCOTT followed afterwards. Jane IRVING asked where this little child was, and she told her. Jane opened
the coal-house door, and took the child out. 

Cross-examined by Mr. COURTENAY.-I am a married woman and have had some children. I cannot say whether the surgeon was called in or
not to examine the appearances in the bed-room and on the kitchen floor. (Witness was questioned closely as to the appearances.)
There was a box in the bed-room. I did not examine it to see if any baby linen were in it; but I heard that the doctor and a woman
had done so. 

Re-examined.-The little child that was here was living with her at the time. 

By Mr. COURTENAY.-But that child was five or six years old-not a baby?-No. 

By Mr. ALDERSON.-But that child was her child?-Yes it was. 

[to be continued] 

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